You too, can buy a "scratch and dent" RV

A brand-new 2015 Heartland Sundance 5th wheel, retail price, $38,000 – sold, $20,000. The rig's front end was scraped in delivery, the dealer refused it, and Heartland didn't want it back. So Bob Ethan snapped the unit up for pennies on the dollar and turned it around at auction for the $20,000 price. Now that's one whale of a "scratch and dent" sale.

It's all in a day's work for a St. Joseph, Minnesota, auction house called Asset Management Inc. The company has been in business for a decade, largely selling repossessions. But a happy twist brought RVs into AMI's arena. They got a call from a trucking company that had a few damaged RVs that they wanted to get rid of. AMI looked into it, and in 2014 sold over 100 different RVs – not all of them "scratch and dent," but there are plenty of them. The outfit anticipates more and more of these rigs.

Not all the damaged RVs are sold at auction – the company website shows quite a list of both "for sale," and "sold" units sitting on the floor with a clear asking price. The prices can be eye-opening. Here's a typical listing:

NEW 2015 SUNDANCE TRAVEL TRAILER 25' CAMPER, MODEL 255MK, 1 SLIDE OUT, SLEEPS 7, FRIG/FREEZER, STOVE/OVEN, WATER HEATER, FURNACE, MICROWAVE, ROOF AIR, POWER AWNING, TOILET/SHOWER, BUNK OVER THE DINETTE, GENESIS STEREO SYSTEM, LED TV, POWER JACK, THIS UNIT HAS MINOR DAMAGE, GVW 8,900 ASKING $19,995 CALL BOB @ 320-267-3949

amiauction.com

Minor damage? AMI included several photos of the unit, both inside and out. We're including the photo of the damage. You'd have to be able to do the fix yourself, or count in the cost of repairs, but all in all it could be a deal. A Florida dealer is asking $29,000 for this model -- sans the damage.

Some units that the outfit gets its hands on are so badly damaged they're sold for parts; however, there's quite a selection of lesser damaged RVs. If nothing else, its an easy job to "kick a few tires" on the Internet by visiting their site.

RV buying: New or used?

David Prasad on flickr.co,

Thinking about buying a new RV? We don't mean, "new to you," but rather, brand-new, fresh from the factory new. There are advantages, sure enough, but there are also drawbacks.

A few years back, in the dark corners of the "Great Recession," buying a new RV was kind of a crapshoot. A lot of RV manufacturers went down the drain and shuttered their factories. This left folks with a seemingly-new RV, and an in-force warranty in a pickle. If nobody stepped up to the plate and assumed the warranty, well, they were just up the creek. Happily, it seems we're passed the days of "building today, bankrupt tomorrow," so the warranty is probably worth a bit more than the price of the paper it's printed on.

Still, even with a new rig and a warranty, life isn't always a bed of roses. Tap in on the conversations on RV forums and you'll find a common denominator among 'brand new' RV buyers: Repeated returns to the dealers to fix things that should never have had to be fixed in the first place. Sad to say, industry-wide, quality control is just NOT a big thing. Buy new, expect that your rig will spend time back at the dealer, getting things fixed. If you bought from a "local" dealer, then you'll likely find it a lot easier to live with this situation.

butterflysha on flickr.com

If you bought on price-point, and say, drove 1,000 miles or even more to buy from a dealer to save big bucks, you may find a problem. If you bought from Sam 1,000 miles away, don't bet that Fred the Dealer in your hometown is going to bend over backwards to get your rig into the shop to fix it – warranty or not. You may find you'll be standing in line a long time, waiting, while your precious vacation time fritters away.

Putting the warranty issue aside, then there's that little thing called "depreciation." Face it, when you buy an RV, you will NEVER get anything close to what you paid for the rig back when you sell it or trade it, even if it's just a few months down the road. It's like buying a car – drive it off the lot, drop the value in a hurry.

So what's the alternative? Buying a gently used, older RV may be the trick. Let the original owner waste his time waiting for his rig to come back from the dealer "getting the bugs worked out." Let some other poor schlep be the guy who paid dearly for the status of having a "brand new RV" watch his interest payments balloon, paying for depreciation.

Of course, you buy used, you've likely bought without warranty. That means, set a little money aside to have that "older but wiser" RV properly inspected. Top to bottom, side to side, and all appliances in safe, working condition. No water leakage. Good rubber on the road. Wheel bearings packed and brakes in good condition. No, it may not have that "factory fresh formaldehyde," essence, but hey, you may have saved yourself thousands of dollars, and months of frustration.

Get your own '61 Shasta travel trailer -- brand new!

Got a Cadillac with fins sitting in your garage? A stack of 45 rpm records you just can't wait to toss on the turntable? Lava lamp in the living room? Yearn for a beehive hairdo? Hey, go all the way, get yourself a brand new 1961 Shasta trailer to go with it all.

Here's a real life anachronism. The folks at Shasta RV bought a '61 travel trailer, took it apart, and are now ramping up to sell modernized reproduction units of these venerable travel trailers, complete with the classic Shasta "wings."

Want to see more? Check out this video from Shasta.

RVing truck buyers face "Class Wars"

More salvos have been fired in the American Pickup Truck wars. This time, the fight is on between Ford and Ram, and Ford is threatening court action if Ram doesn't back off its advertising statements. At issue: Just what is a Class 3 pickup truck? That's an important question in Ram promoters minds as they claim their Ram 3500 pickup has the greatest towing ability, "in its class."

For RVers, tow capability is big potatoes. As travel trailer and fifth wheel manufacturers lump on more and more "features," those features are like little calories that all add up on a dieter's scale. Ram says its 3500 will tow 30,000 pounds. But Ford fires back that its F-450 Crew Cab (2015 edition) will yank around 31,200 pounds. Here's where what some would say, "the nitpicking begins." Ram claims Ford's unit is really a "Class 4" truck, while the Ram is in the smaller, Class 3 range.

So what are the classes all about? In the pickup truck world, the smallest of pickups scale in the Class 1 range, and run up, topping out in Class 4. The standard for what class a truck falls into as a federal guideline, issued by set by the Federal Highway Administration. Their formula for classes is based on gross vehicle weight rating (GVRW) -- the weight of an unloaded truck (curb weight) plus the maximum allowable payload. The difference between a Class 3 and a Class 4 truck? The Class 3 truck GVRW must not exceed 14,000 pounds. Anything more goes to a higher weight class.

Here's the hot contention: Ford claims a Class 3 rating because the company claims a GVWR of 14,000 pounds. Not so fast, counters Ram. Ford seems to play fast and loose with its calculations. Ford says F-450's curb weight is 8,611 pounds. To say in the Class 3 14,000 pound limit, it would seem that its maximum payload would then be limited to 5,389 pounds. But hocus-pocus, Ford says its payload is actually 5,450 pounds -- pushing the "real" GVWR over the limit by 61 pounds.

But Ford ingeniously gets around the problem by suggesting a customer "could" order an F-450 without several components -- a radio, center console, jack, and spare tire. Hey, Presto! Suddenly the whole thing fits neatly under 14,000 pounds. Ram plays a straight game, not "deducting" various fitments. It seems industry professionals tend to lean on Ram's side. In a story carried by autonews.com, industry observer Dave Sullivan opined, "That is a Class 4 truck under the skin. It has all the equipment of all of their Class 4 trucks. They call it the F-450, not F-350." Sullivan is a product analysis manager for AutoPacific, an automotive marketing research firm. "This has significant hardware changes to Ford's own Class 3 Super Duty. That's what puts it into the next class."

Dickering over words and options is important to these two truck titans. With an average sticker price beyond $50,000, just what truck you next buy can make a big difference on company bottom lines.

RV pre-purchase inspections: One man's experience

Looking at buying a used RV? As you already know, rigs cost a bunch of money, and there are plenty of "hidden problems," that can inflate your purchase price greatly if you find out "afterwards," that you missed something before you handed over your money.

Don't let your heart take you for a ride

Some RVers find it a wise investment to have a potential rig professionally inspected. Even RVers who have plenty of experience in rigs may find it prudent. Why so? Sometimes that little Judas that beats away in our chest can mislead us. We may like the layout, the looks, and the seemingly good price so much that our heart can overwhelm us – and cause us to miss something that might make that "really good deal," a really bad one.

So how do you get an honest appraisal of what's right and wrong with an RV? By all means, hire an independent set of eyes – don't just take the word of the technician at the dealership whose selling the unit. Nevertheless, finding an inspector can be daunting. Here's some of the experience of a Canadian buyer, who wanted an inspection of a motorhome 3,000 miles away from where he lived. He'd already reviewed video and stills sent him by the dealer, but not being able to actually "go and see" the rig himself.

The man dug into the matter and phoned several outfits in the area and got some surprising responses:

Several RV dealership and RV service outfits said they'd "never heard of" a pre-purchase inspection. Some said if he'd put together a list of what he wanted looked at, they could have a tech investigate. How much? Well, that's when things got rather vague.

He had more success with "mobile RV service" companies who were willing to go out to the dealer's lot and look over the rig (most of the other outfits wanted the rig brought to them). That seemed intriguing, trouble is, the "have tools will travel" guys were only interested in inspecting the coach and it's functions, not the underlying chassis, and power train.

So why not hire the RV guys to inspect the coach, then get an automotive shop to inspect the rest of the rig? Good thought, trouble is, few shops wanted any part of it, and those that did would only proceed if the rig was brought to them. Once again, that might have worked for him, had he been in the area of the dealership, and not trying to do the inspections by "remote control," if you will.

After a lot of digging, the buyer finally located an inspection service on the Internet, rvsurvey.com. While the outfit didn't have an inspector in the immediate area of the dealer, one of their "affiliates," was close enough that the price worked out, even when mileage charges were taken into account. While the hired inspector couldn't do a lot of in-depth chassis and drive-train evaluation, at least he was willing to take the coach out for a test drive and gave what help he could. Better than nothing.

Still, be prepared to pay good money for such an inspection. For the situation above, the inspection ran $400 plus mileage. That's a lot of scratch, but if you're plunking down tens of thousands of dollars on a used rig, it's a small price – particularly if a "problem rig" is sniffed out before signing on the dotted line.

Winnebago rolls out welcome mat on factory tours

Thinking about plopping down your money on one of America's most popular brands – Winnebago? Perhaps you need a little more convincing. Or maybe you're not in the market for a new rig, but you're just interested in how one of these rigs is put together. If your travels take you over Iowa way, Winnebago says, "Come on down!"

The big RV manufacturer has about 10,000 guests drop in every year to visit their Forest City plant to take a free factory tour. Founded in 1958, “Winnebago” became a household word when the company became the first recreation vehicle manufacturer to build motorhomes in an automotive-style assembly line system. Winnebago builds its Winnebago, Itasca, and Winnebago Touring Coach motorhome brands in one of the most technologically advanced RV manufacturing facilities in existence today.

The tour starts at the Winnebago Visitors’ Center with a 20-minute video that offers a preview of the manufacturing process.  After the video, the tour bus, manufactured by Winnebago Industries, departs for a drive-through tour of the grounds.  Tour goers are also able to do walk-in tours of three buildings: the chassis weld facility, where the raw chassis is prepared to become a home on wheels with the front cab and basement storage added; the Stitchcraft facility that builds quality chairs, window valances, sofas and other innovative furniture pieces that are only found in our motorhomes; and our main production area named Big Bertha.

Equivalent in size to eight football fields, Big Bertha features three production lines.  Visitors will see the magnitude of this building thanks to mezzanines that provide a bird’s eye view.

Before or after the tour, visitors can also visit the Winnebago Museum which is located in the upper level of the Visitors’ Center.  The museum chronicles the Company’s 56-year history, as well as the design and construction of the Company’s motorhomes.

During the spring and summer months, the Visitors’ Center also features some of the latest models of the company’s Winnebago, Itasca, and Winnebago Touring Coach motorhomes, as well as Winnebago Towables, right off the assembly lines.

Visitors can also see one of the first motorhomes built by Winnebago Industries, the classic 1967 Winnebago D22, as well as a 1959 trailer. The Visitors’ Center is also home to WIT Club, the company’s product owners club and Winnebago Outdoor Store, which offers a variety of Winnebago branded apparel, gifts, and wearables.

Tours of Winnebago are free, and all ages are welcome.  Children under 18 must be accompanied by an adult.  The Visitors’ Center is accessible to those with disabilities; however the factory tour does include three staircases.

Tours, which last approximately two hours, are offered twice daily at 9 a.m. and 1 p.m. Monday through Friday from April through October, and at 1 p.m. in November.  If your group is larger than six, reservations are recommended.

For more information, call 641-585-6936, visit http://www.winnebagoind.com/company/visit-us/ or e-mail info@winnebagoind.com.

Source: Winnebago press release and rvtravel.com

Detroit 3 pickup tow ratings: Lies, damned lies, and statistics

Several years ago we published what we headlined as "good news for buyers," of pickup trucks. The story focused on a new, industry-accepted standard for determining pickup truck towing capacities. At that time we wrote, " By the end of 2013 when RVers shop for a new tow rig, they should be able to do a side-by-side comparison of the towing abilities of competing pickups. It's comparable to looking at the EPA estimated miles-per-gallon sticker when car shopping. Imagine the EPA didn't set a standardized test, and every builder could simply write their own rules? Truck manufacturers have done this for years, and as one industry writer notes, when the competition somehow "beat" Brand X, Brand X would simply re-write the standards and edge out the competition."

Well, 2013 has come and gone, and where do we stand? This week, Automotive News ran a story that indicates Detroit's "Big 3" have declared that come the 2015 model year, the long-awaited standards will be applied to their pickups. Yes, consumers can finally compare Ford's apples to Dodge's oranges in terms of tow ratings. To quote Automotive news, "Spokesmen for Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler Group confirmed last week that they will join Toyota in using a towing standard adopted by the industry in 2009 to rate 2015-model full-sized light duty pickups. A spokesman for General Motors said it, too, will adopt the standard if its competitors do."

That big IF is what shut down the whole proceeding almost as soon as it got started. Remember that 2009 agreement said everyone would be on the same page for the 2013 model year trucks. In real terms, it meant that a lot of truck models would suddenly "look" like they could pull a lot less than they previously claimed, and that, my friends, didn't sit well with everyone who penned the agreement. Ford decided it didn't like the looks of less towing capacity, so when the 2013 figures should have come out, it reneged on the agreement – and the other two Detroit builders pulled out, too.

So what's all the fanfare now? Will we really see a bit of honesty belly up to the pickup truck buying bar? Yes and no. You probably caught it when you read the statement a couple of paragraphs ago. If you missed it, here it is again, "to rate 2015-model full-sized light duty pickups."

How many RVers use a "light duty" pickup for serious trailer or fifth wheel towing? Yes, if you regularly tow something like a Casita or a pop-up trailer, a light duty pickup is a great innovation. But if your rig puts a serious tug on the hitch, light duty pickups aren't going to cut it. So it seems the big agreement that the boys in Detroit have owned up to is not much more than press release noise, and to quote Shakespeare, "Full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing." 

RV shopping? Check out dealer reputations before you walk on the lot

A report published on rvdailyreport.com says that McMahon's RV has closed their Mesa, Arizona location. All inventory at the dealership is gone, and service and sales operations closed. The report says, "Spokesperson George Carson confirmed that the Mesa location had been closed, but he declined to give any specifics regarding the move."

We wondered about the sudden closure of this California-based firm's Arizona location. A McMahon's lot is open and running in Quartzsite, Ariz., and three more are open in California. But a look at the Better Business Bureau records for the Mesa location are revealing, and might give a hint as to the closure.

According to the BBB serving Central, Northern and Western Arizona, McMahon's of Mesa has lost it's BBB accreditation, and on a score-card of A+ to F garners a grade of D- BBB letter grade. Whys is McMahon's grade in the scuppers? It probably has something to do with the 32 customer complaints filed with the BBB. Several noted providing trade-ins to the company, with McMahon's agreeing to pay off the customer's note. Later, the customers are startled when they find the note wasn't paid off, and that they are months behind in payments, creating problems with credit histories. Only after complaints are filed with the BBB, does McMahon actually pay off the note.

Others complain they purchased an RV, but spend months waiting for the title and registration. We personally know a couple who purchased a used fifth-wheel from McMahons, and after months of complaining, finally got a title – only to find the serial number of the RV didn't match the one on the title.

Other complaints centered around financing gone awry. For example, one customer handed the company a $5,000 deposit on a new RV, with an agreement that the financing would be to agreed percentages and loan length terms. The company cashed the deposit check, and three weeks later told the customer they couldn't get the desired financing. Nearly two months after handing over their deposit money, the customer resorted to filing a complaint with the BBB – they still hadn't gotten their deposit money back.

All this points to the old maxim, BUYER BEWARE. Sad to say, not all RV dealers are candidates for an A+ rating with the BBB. Checking a dealership's BBB rating before walking onto the lot may spare you a lot of heart-ache, and even your good credit. We took a quick peek at BBB ratings for the other McMahon's locations. We found no ratings, only this statement: "This business has no rating at this time because BBB file information is being reviewed and/or updated." Draw your own conclusions.

If a BBB rating isn't available, there are other places to look for feedback.  By simply "googling" the name of a prospective RV dealer, you may find a "google review." In McMahon's case, the Westminster, California dealership has one very good review – and eight very negative ones. Overall, the company received one star out of a possible five, based on these reviews. 

RVs are costly, and money (for most of us) is dear. Be careful when you go shopping.

Six tips about how to buy an RV

RV Travel editor Chuck Woodbury offers six quick tips about how to buy an RV. Woodbury is the host of the Better Business Bureau's DVD "Buying a Recreational Vehicle."

RV builder claims automation virtually eliminates window leaks

If you've been an RVer for much time, you know that leaks are the bane of your rig. Roof leaks are one thing, but one that seems to haunt all of us are leaks that spring from windows. Water can slide its way past seals and infiltrate the sidewalls of our rigs and the prognosis from there is usually ugly.

What's the problem with window seals? It often comes down to the human equation. When a window is installed on a production line, two types of sealant are used. First the window edges are dressed all around with what RVers commonly call "putty tape," a sticky flat tape that sandwiches between the window flange and the RV's sidewall. Since most RV windows have not square corners, but rather, "radius curves" it's really difficult to put the tape on evenly when making a corner. Gaps can occur.

To help backstop the integrity (or lack of it) of the tape, after installing the window, the manufacturer will typically add a bead of some sort of sealant all around the window on the outside edge. This too, is done "by hand," and with that old imperfect human hand doing the job, the sealant may not always go on in a uniform way.

Fast forward to the real world of bumps, jarring, and extremes of temperature on the road. The inner seal twixt window and sidewall, and that "band aid" approach with the outer seal. A little flexing here, a bit of expansion there, a nice rainstorm, and sure enough, water infiltration – an RV's worst enemy – has come.

So we read with interest a news release from Open Range RV, a fifth wheel and travel trailer manufacturer out of Indiana, says it has the answer to leaky window seals: Remove the human hand and automate it. Using a "semi-robotic" seal system built by Dicor Corporation, instead of putty tape, a mechanized system applies a hot melt sealant with a robotic arm. Once the window is in place, the need for that secondary, outside "cap seal" is eliminated.

Open Range officials maintain that their new sealing system, "showed consistent, near perfect test results over the course of hundreds of windows a day." It adds they'll be using the same system to put sealant around entry doors and hatches.

If the system works out, you can be sure other RV builders will be looking to Dicor to acquire and use the same system. For the rest of us end uses, however, we'll still have to rely on those human hands, either our own, or those of the local RV shop, when it comes to renewing seals.